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Post by buffyswatcher on May 11, 2007 18:59:34 GMT -5
Andrew's continuity = comic relief from day 1. There's not much more to him than that. Like his idea to make Buffy a "willing sex bunny" through hypnotism? Yeah, I find unconsensual sex real amusing. Great comic relief. First of all, I think you and I both know that I wasn't saying what you just implied. No one here is condoning those type of actions Maybe you should think before you write something that is as insulting as that. You haven't been here all that long and I wonder if you're one of those people who just type things to stir up trouble. It's actually really annoying and quite immature. If you're not that type of person (which I doubt because apparently, you've had some lengthy "discussions" here before) than here's some advice: Not a good first impression. This is a pointless and pathetic argument. Perhaps you should just boycott the comic if you're so against Andrew being in it. Others have pointed out that Willow killed someone (who WAS an evil person) but she also tried destroying the world. OK, so that makes 2 REALLY, REALLY BAAAD people in the comic. Then there's Buffy. Whoa!? Where do we start with her?? She was suicidal in season 5 and we don't want to support suicide now do we? No of course not. Then in season 7 she lead a number of unprepared Potentials into battle, getting a number of them killed in the process. Does that make her similar to a manipulative cult leader who convinces people to drink poisoned kool-aid? Maybe. Afterall, the U.S. sees her as a terrorist. So with all of these really BAD BAD BAD people being offered to you in a comic, why support it? Or better yet, why continue your babbling of the same line over and over again? No one here is denying that Andrew's a storyteller, hence that episode starring him. He's always told stories. Are you forgetting how he lied to Xander in "Chosen" about Anya saving his life. Because, ya'know she didn't. How's that for growth? And yes he did lie to Angel and Spike in "Damage", but you're obviously forgetting that he was working with the Slayers while Angel and Company were working for no other than Wolfram and Hart. An EVIL law firm. I think you need to brush up on your details before you waste any more of our time.
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trejo
Victim
Where angels fear to tread.
Posts: 51
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Post by trejo on May 11, 2007 22:46:50 GMT -5
I dont think thats the case since 99.99% of fans seem to see it just fine. This discussion is mildly disturbing (and majorly hilarious). Its one thing to have strong feelings about something but this guy is totally taking this Andrew thing way too far and way too seriously. Given suspension of disbelief, their actions have consequences. Within their own world. So he's not to be taken seriously? Then why's he training slayers? If he is supposed to be a teacher, then he needs to tell the truth. If a lecture on tactics comes up in regards to the First, then what's it going to be? That he somehow, with mostly Spike, saved the world? Is that what slayers are supposed to learn? If he's not supposed to be taken seriously, then he shouldn't be in a position where it is an assumption that he should be, mainly a teacher.
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trejo
Victim
Where angels fear to tread.
Posts: 51
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Post by trejo on May 11, 2007 22:50:07 GMT -5
trejo... I'm not going to go back and rewatch all of the episodes involving Andrew for the sake of a tedious debate, but the reality is that your argument is not as unassailable as you appear to believe. Transcripts are helpful. And he only appears in two episodes past the end of Buffy. Which is why I can quote dialogue of what he says. I hardly have to watch the episodes. Supporting evidence after his latest episode appearance? If he has grown, then it would have to take place after the end of Angel. So what exactly is that supporting evidence? But, where's the evidence? Relying solely on Storyteller doesn't cut it since Damage occurs after it.
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trejo
Victim
Where angels fear to tread.
Posts: 51
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Post by trejo on May 11, 2007 22:58:34 GMT -5
First of all, I think you and I both know that I wasn't saying what you just implied. No one here is condoning those type of actions Maybe you should think before you write something that is as insulting as that. It's called suspension of disbelief. A character being comic relief is no justification. Unless of course the whole point is that it is fictional. I doubt that, since they don't break the fourth wall to immediately use knowledge of fictional cliches and ubiquitious occurrances to get out of trouble. They exist as if their world is real. Therefore, they have to be judged under that framework. I'm sorry if you thought I was implying that you condoned rape. However, "comic relief" is a poor justification for behavior. I posted an opinion on the comic. People decided to respond. I responded to that. Why are others so free to be able to respond, but I can't? Again, like I said previously, her "therapy" is shown. Where was Andrew's? Since it's free to me, why not read it? It's not like it's costing me anything. And her leading of the potentials in season 7 makes her a poor field commander. Not a cult leader, since she techically didn't lead a cult. But, that's another discussion. What's the benefit to the Council for that particular lie in Damage? What's the strategic advantage? Why lie if thereis no benefit? And even supposing it's only to them, why is he also wrong in terms of the technology utilized by slayers in the field back in Issue 2? Is there some benefit to not telling them the whole truth?
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trejo
Victim
Where angels fear to tread.
Posts: 51
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Post by trejo on May 11, 2007 23:03:14 GMT -5
You should check out the thread me and Trejo debated in for a good week or so. I let it continue for ages til I proved him wrong. Never got a reply again. Right. You keep telling yourself that. Honesty and competence. Intentionally or not he is wrong in his lecture to the slayers in Issue #2. If he had truly grown he should realize his faults. One of them being the "storytelling." If he is unable to separate that from his position as a teacher, then he should remove himself from that position since it is only to the detriment of the slayers. He lacks either the honesty to see himself truthfully, and his limited tactical experience, or the competence to realize that he is illequipped to teach. Why would I? If he's supposed to be a former villain turned hero, then he should act like it. Teaching slayers the way things happen incorrectly is not it.
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Post by FM on May 11, 2007 23:08:19 GMT -5
This is getting real old. You're not going to convert anyone here to your way of thinking when it comes to Andrew. Mostly because we've got brains and all.
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Post by buffyswatcher on May 11, 2007 23:21:46 GMT -5
Everyone has voiced their opinions and no one is budging. Let's ALL move on. If this is evidence of how threads are going to be for future issues, I know I'll be hauling my butt out of here very quickly to go and do something more fun, like listen to Democrats and Republicans debate abortion. Two variant covers for issue #5! Check this out: Jeanty's: www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=14-836%20bPaul Lee's: www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=14-836%20a(I would have insert the images here, but I don't know how to do that. Could someone explain how to do that, please?)
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trejo
Victim
Where angels fear to tread.
Posts: 51
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Post by trejo on May 12, 2007 4:46:14 GMT -5
img tags should work. Basically img in brackets to start and then /img in brackets to close, with the link in the middle. Though, some sites don't like people stealing bandwidth. At least that's how it should work. Although, inlining large pictures sucks for people with dialup, especially if there are also people with sigs.
Edit: [ img ] link [ / img ] though without the spaces. So, am I going to be the only one to take buffywatchers' advice?
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dhoffryn
Potential Slayer
'dust, anybody, dust'
Posts: 359
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Post by dhoffryn on May 12, 2007 6:02:00 GMT -5
How is Warren Back???........... Well heres my idea
Buffy was killed by mystical energy Warren was killed by magical energy NOT A PROPER DEATH according to Osirus
When the urn got trashed xander suggests that they could crazy glue it back together Willow say the urn wont work properly if it's flawed I think Amy glued the urn back togther and because it was flawed warren came back without his skin or she did a reversal spell. Or I stand by my earlier guess Amy wished it, Why not? Anya got dhoffryn to bring back about 12 bodies in exchange for the life and soul of a vengeance demon.
I think dhoffryns the big bad I can't wait to see what happens to Willow
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Post by henz on May 12, 2007 6:51:22 GMT -5
You should check out the thread me and Trejo debated in for a good week or so. I let it continue for ages til I proved him wrong. Never got a reply again. Right. You keep telling yourself that. Don't need to. We debated our views, where I argued my case in a situation of vague explanation, and you tried over and over to tell me I was wrong. I then provided proof of Tim Minear explaiining the character in question. Quite definitive I thought. Always fun to argue with you though. Your misinformed doses of self-worship brighten up my day.
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Post by x-esque on May 12, 2007 7:33:50 GMT -5
Heh, I come back to this thread, and jinxieman is right - its quite funny! Now trejo's argument rests on Andrew's claim that he saved the world. And it seems like the worst affront is that he didn't give Buffy credit. And this is supposed to be this big insidious lie. Now if taking more than the fair share of credit for saving something is unpardonable, then the entire WHEDONVERSE is in trouble. Which character has NOT sometime or another exaggerated their contribution?
Right of the top of my head there's Angel when he and Spike are arguing, and Angel claims he stopped Acathla. Yes, Buffy did it, but Angel takes credit. And that was in Season 5 of Angel, so his whole redemption is shot to heck because he of the unpardonable sin of taking credit when someone else did the work. And Spike, so sure the whole time that he was the champion and believing in the Shanshu prophecy - that's another affront right there. Spike believing he should take center stage, when there are better champions about. I remember when Wesley got in the spotlight of Angel season 2, so much so that Angel Investigations was referred to as Wyndam-Price Agency. Taking credit for Angel's work.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find any character that hasn't done something similiar. I read that transcript of Damage, and I'll tell ya, that dialogue is chock full of Andrew's goofy lines. So in the middle of his attraction to Spike, his Lord of the Rings references, his Star Trek references, and general light comedy, he drops this serious bomb, this big insidious lie that he saved the world? That is a serious misreading of that scene.
Doesn't matter - this logic apparently is only reserved for Andrew, while most other characters skate by on their lesser offenses, like torture, murder, etc.
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Post by buffyswatcher on May 12, 2007 21:30:13 GMT -5
img tags should work. Basically img in brackets to start and then /img in brackets to close, with the link in the middle. Though, some sites don't like people stealing bandwidth. At least that's how it should work. Although, inlining large pictures sucks for people with dialup, especially if there are also people with sigs. Edit: [ img ] link [ / img ] though without the spaces. So, am I going to be the only one to take buffywatchers' advice? Thanks tejo. And no, I will also take my own advice. Also, unless I'm doing something wrong, which is very possible, the image thing didn't work, so I left the links. My thought is that perhaps it''s just another spell Amy has concocted that is similar to the one she pulled in season & when she was turning Willow into Warren. Maybe it's a fear spell where the victim sees what frightens her the most?? Just a thought. (But it does seema little dull. I mean why do the same thing or something similar twice?)
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Post by ThisYearsGuy on May 13, 2007 7:16:03 GMT -5
I think the First Evil is back, and wearing Warren shaped clothes.
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Post by buffyswatcher on May 13, 2007 10:43:14 GMT -5
I think the First Evil is back, and wearing Warren shaped clothes. I think that would be great. I really liked the first evil as a Big Bad and the way they left season 7, Buffy only foiled his plan and didn't kill him. However, unless the First is corporeal now, it wouldn't be able to hold the saw. Plus, why would the First be interested in the military's weapons?
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Post by ThisYearsGuy on May 13, 2007 13:26:57 GMT -5
Maybe it is corporeal now and wants to rule the world? I don't know, but it's a cool idea.
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vampfaz
Potential Slayer
Scream.My.Name
Posts: 366
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Post by vampfaz on May 13, 2007 14:59:21 GMT -5
My thought is that perhaps it''s just another spell Amy has concocted that is similar to the one she pulled in season & when she was turning Willow into Warren. Maybe it's a fear spell where the victim sees what frightens her the most?? Just a thought. (But it does seema little dull. I mean why do the same thing or something similar twice?)Because that's what Amy does best .. the only spell we saw here use for ages on the show was the Rat spell. I know she's "grown up" and all, but it would be so like her to use the same trick twice, imo.
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Post by VampireStake on May 14, 2007 2:27:25 GMT -5
Anyone get there copy from the BCC yet?
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Post by BillyBudd on May 14, 2007 9:48:20 GMT -5
Yeah, I got mine early last week.
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Post by esc on May 14, 2007 9:55:36 GMT -5
I got issue #3 early last week but they skiped on issue #2, even after I e-mailed them to let them know I was missing #2.
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Post by firerancher on May 14, 2007 14:27:52 GMT -5
I didn't get #2, either but assumed it was because I was in the middle of a move.
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