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Post by firerancher on May 5, 2007 15:40:27 GMT -5
I really thought it was Willow that kissed Buffy...but that might just be me wishing You and me both!!! LOL. That's been my long-standing dream... Do you think Willow tastes like Cinnamon Buns??
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Post by Garrison on May 6, 2007 17:47:52 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more I think that the Warren inpersonator is Rack. Say sunnydale is crumbling around her, who's Amy going to run to? Who ought to have a serious grudge against Willow for nearly killing him? And who is probably the closest think Amy ever had to a boy friend after Larry? All signs pint to wrack.
I think that the mention of "to the hour" is a clue. Who was killed at a specific time or had a clock in the shot during their 'death' scene?
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trejo
Victim
Where angels fear to tread.
Posts: 51
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Post by trejo on May 7, 2007 23:45:14 GMT -5
Man, if that is Warren, then unless there's a magic spell he's got to be in a world of pain. It'd be like the Venture Bros. version of the Human Torch. That would be hilarious. Though it makes me wonder why he goes around naked. If he can stand walking around like that, put on a shirt. And, in a more "realistic" world, if Willow is that vulnerable, they should just shoot her in the head and be done with it.
Good parts? Mainly character interactions amongst the heroes. Though honestly, Xander to me is the only one that shines in this issue. Though only because of his talk with the injured slayer.
Now for the criticisms.
Amy? Uh, I thought she was lying when a kiss from her love would set her free. Cause that's what bad guys do, lie. Otherwise that's a really lame villain who doesn't even need to be interrogated to give up the plot. Honestly, now. That's just dumb. I hope there's something more there than that.
And attempted rapist near half-naked girls? No. Sorry, but no. You don't just get to pull that and do this strip poker thing and portray it as funny. Life model decoys, skrulls, space phantoms. Whatever lame plan to retcon it is fine, but honestly, I feel insulted that I'm supposed to be amused by an attempted rapist playing strip poker with young women. Make it not Andrew in S6, sure. Or mind controlled. Stupid, but it's better than expecting me to buy what happens here.
Not a bad comic nowadays, I see you Civil War, for mostly dialogue. But, honestly, for a series that pays attention to continuity, they really should not be cherry picking what things they refer to. And gah, if these stupid moments don't keep coming up. I want to like this. I really do, but man if they aren't making it hard to. All I know, is that I'm glad I'm getting the first four free from BCC. Six out of ten. Though only because of good Xander moments. And that's generous.
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Post by x-esque on May 8, 2007 7:50:29 GMT -5
So that was a good call whoever previously said the boyfriend could be Warren. I'm wondering exactly what state he's in too. Could he be raised from the dead? An apparition? Magic trick? I did start laughing when I saw Buffy's threesome, and her embarrassment. Actually I was laughing earlier when she said "I threw up in my mouth a little". I thought the whole thing was a tightly written, fine episode. Can't wait for the next. That kiss - well they implied it was Xander, and he's the obvious choice - so to me its got to be someone else. It could be just a random slayer, and when its revealed it may be that kind of anti-climactic joke. And Amy's magic could have gotten the "true love" message wrong, or confused it with lust, or any number of things. I will say this about season 8: its causing almost as much consternation and groaning as season 7! Or 6. I think initially any season after 2 made people groan, but then when reexamined later people are more accepting. Could be the same with this. Andrew, he's still funny. Attempted rape? I mean, the whole point of his characterization is that Buffy drilled in him what repentance means, Giles later accepted him, and he's supposed to have grown. Plus, its always implied that he's closeted, hence its funny that he's not excited by girls in underwear. He's hardly supposed to be a monster rapist.
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trejo
Victim
Where angels fear to tread.
Posts: 51
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Post by trejo on May 8, 2007 9:33:19 GMT -5
Yet he was part of the whole mind control the girl and have sex with her plan. Incompetent attempted rapists are still attempted rapists. And in S5 of Angel he was obviously delusional. Spike may have been rather instrumental in defeating the First, but he was not.
Sorry, but that does not speak to me of someone that is repentant of his actions. He's still twisting around events to suit him, to make himself look better. Even after S7 of Buffy. I highly doubt he feels remorse for his past sins.
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Post by willowswarlok on May 8, 2007 9:35:49 GMT -5
am i missing something here with the attempted rape? where does it say that? Wayne
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Post by x-esque on May 8, 2007 11:44:41 GMT -5
He's referring to the episode where Warren casts a spell over his ex-girlfriend and then reveals his plans to have sex with her. This is the one meant to show how violent Warren is, but if I remember correctly, Andrew was a bit freaked out when he realized what was going on. So he's lumped into the category of attempted rapist (as opposed to the real attempted rapist, Spike).
Okay, if Buffy and Giles are wrong about Andrew's current state (and frankly I don't think he's all that redemptive like Angel is, but I'm not as forgiving as Buffy) - what about him being gay?
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Post by SlayerLover34 on May 8, 2007 17:24:15 GMT -5
Got issue #3 yesterday and as usual, I loved it. I wonder if it was Xander that kissed Buffy? I noticed when she asked, he was holding his head down. Got a chuckle over the Buff/Ang/Spike 3-way with the trains in the tunnels, erupting volcano, and stakes and flowers. It's always fun to see familiar characters like Ethan and Warren, even though I didn't like Warren. Enjoyed Buffy falling down memory lane with Ethan, caught a glimpse of dead Joyce on the sofa, Caleb, the Master, Faith, Riley, and a few others. Loved the battle between Willow and Amy as well as the giant stomping Dawn. Looking forward to #4.
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Post by buffyswatcher on May 8, 2007 19:40:07 GMT -5
While I could gush over the entire comic for hours on end, I'm going to keep it short. I really like where the story is going, but the more I read them, the more I don't like Georges Jeanty. I thought the first issue was great and I loved his work, but I think I was just mesmerized by the fact that I was reading more Buffy. The more I get into it and start really looking at the comic, the more I miss Cliff Richards. I see the awesome work Chen does on the cover and then when I see Jeanty's work (while I do think it IS good work, just a little - dare I say it - campy). That's my only real gripe with the series. I can't wait for issue 5 to see what Paul Lee does with the artwork. Speaking of issue 5, check our Chen's cover: www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=14-661As for the whole Andrew is a rapist issue, I don't think people should that much into the comic. It is, afterall, just a comic.
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Post by BillyBudd on May 8, 2007 21:13:46 GMT -5
I'd call Andrew an accomplice to an attempted rapist rather than an attempted rapist. In that season 6 episode of BtVS, Andrew was just going along with Warren's plan to kidnap Warren's ex because he looked up to him (and probably was infatuated with him as well).
C'mon, the strip poker scene was just a joke. Not only is Andrew playing for the "good side" now, he also represents no threat whatsoever to a room full of slayers. Andrew said to Xander that Xander would be bored STIFF. I thought it was funny. And the obvious implication is that Andrew is gay, which was hinted at in the past as well.
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trejo
Victim
Where angels fear to tread.
Posts: 51
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Post by trejo on May 8, 2007 22:34:25 GMT -5
I'd call Andrew an accomplice to an attempted rapist rather than an attempted rapist. In that season 6 episode of BtVS, Andrew was just going along with Warren's plan to kidnap Warren's ex because he looked up to him (and probably was infatuated with him as well). Except for the part where he says "who gets to..." and then claims it isn't fair when Warren says it'll be him. And he certainly didn't say anything was wrong when Warren said that they could get her after. And when did "I was just following orders" become a valid justification? It's a cheap joke at the expense of what was established about these characters. I certainly don't think Tony Stark should be making jokes about Captain America. Or Reed Richards should be making jokes about Goliath. Or the Illuminati making jokes about the Hulk. Or them setting up the jokes. Because of their direct past actions which resulted in well, not fun stuff. Reed Richards is on the "good side" but I don't think that gives him a pass for what he did. Even if it was technically an accident. And Andrew being gay is pretty much meaningless. By all accounts he would have gone through with it. Perhaps he's bi. He is the one that suggested that they make Buffy their "willing sex bunny" in Flooded. Pretty sure that means non consensual with Warren's hypnotism line previous. Makes me really wonder if any of the slayers are briefed on Andrew's past. Not that any of the others likely know exactly what happened.
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Post by xander000 on May 9, 2007 0:54:15 GMT -5
my comic store told be there won't be a issue in june...i was surprise to here that...but now i saw that issue #5 is coming out in august so maybe #4 will come in july after all?
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Post by Jinxieman on May 9, 2007 13:42:01 GMT -5
I thought 4 was coming in June and 5 was coming August...that the break was after this ark was complete.
And I'm not justifying any fictional characters actions, but I don't think that Andrew was aware of the reality of what they were doing. He and Jonathan looked shoked when Katrina said that what they were doing was rap. I think this is the moment when they started to realize what Warren was. I know Andrew continued to follow Warren, but I think that his remorse and redemption came and was evident in the series, especially after the First got him to murder Jonathan...even if we didn't see it all on screne.
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Post by BillyBudd on May 9, 2007 15:24:53 GMT -5
I think Andrew and Jonathan were all talk, but that's just me. If you want to get technical, Warren attempted to rape his ex and subsequently murdered her. Neither Andrew nor Jonathan attempted to rape her. Maybe they would have, but it never happened. Andrew and Jonathan were guilty of kidnapping. And of course, they were also accomplices to Warren's crimes.
If trejo thinks the strip poker joke is in bad taste, that's his/her prerogative though. It's understandable, I suppose, but I don't take BtVS that seriously. If I did, I would hate half the cast.
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Post by FM on May 9, 2007 16:38:28 GMT -5
I loved this issue. Its really getting good.
The fact that you want us all to be up in arms over Andrew and the "young girls" is just ridiculous for sooooo many reasons. The fact that you even imply it shows that its you who is ignoring whats already been established about these characters. Go back and watch every Andrew scene since the "rape" and you'll see how much he's grown. Plus those "young girls" are all vampire slayers. I dont think Andrew would be able to take a normal teenage girl in a fight let alone a slayer.
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Post by CowboyGuy on May 9, 2007 18:27:16 GMT -5
Faith is a murderer. So are the writers of the show in the wrong for having her around people? She has killed a few in her past...
And what about Spike? Was it wrong for him to be in close proximity to females after he actually tried raping Buffy?
Giles killed Ben.
People change. Why should one character be condemned for all eternity for something that they are sorry for?
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Post by buffyswatcher on May 9, 2007 19:44:41 GMT -5
I'd call Andrew an accomplice to an attempted rapist rather than an attempted rapist. In that season 6 episode of BtVS, Andrew was just going along with Warren's plan to kidnap Warren's ex because he looked up to him (and probably was infatuated with him as well). Except for the part where he says "who gets to..." and then claims it isn't fair when Warren says it'll be him. And he certainly didn't say anything was wrong when Warren said that they could get her after. And when did "I was just following orders" become a valid justification? It's a cheap joke at the expense of what was established about these characters. I certainly don't think Tony Stark should be making jokes about Captain America. Or Reed Richards should be making jokes about Goliath. Or the Illuminati making jokes about the Hulk. Or them setting up the jokes. Because of their direct past actions which resulted in well, not fun stuff. Reed Richards is on the "good side" but I don't think that gives him a pass for what he did. Even if it was technically an accident. And Andrew being gay is pretty much meaningless. By all accounts he would have gone through with it. Perhaps he's bi. He is the one that suggested that they make Buffy their "willing sex bunny" in Flooded. Pretty sure that means non consensual with Warren's hypnotism line previous. Makes me really wonder if any of the slayers are briefed on Andrew's past. Not that any of the others likely know exactly what happened. You are totally reading into this way too much.
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Post by DanMan on May 9, 2007 20:39:50 GMT -5
Oh man, Warren! I don't know how or why, but I called it! I'm feeling really good about that.
I feel like I need to re-read the dream segments several times to try to take it all in.
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Post by buffyswatcher on May 9, 2007 21:23:35 GMT -5
Did anyone notice that Joss was drawn into Buffy's dream sequence? He's at the bottom of the page when Buffy's dreaming about taking French class again.
Also, when Andrew is with the slayers playing strip poker, the girl in the back is readin Fray.
My last thought right now is that just because the guy at the end doesn't have skin, it never says that its Warren. Perhaps Joss just wants us to think its him for now???
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trejo
Victim
Where angels fear to tread.
Posts: 51
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Post by trejo on May 9, 2007 21:48:19 GMT -5
Faith is a murderer. So are the writers of the show in the wrong for having her around people? She has killed a few in her past... She went to jail. Willingly. I don't recall Andrew doing this. That was without a soul. If that makes a difference as some claim, then it's fine. I think it's a poor excuse, but if that's what the show wants to portray the soul as, I'll give it to them. To prevent Glory from succeeding. Exactly how did Andrew's past sins measure up to that? Did Andrew's killing of Jonathan help the world stay safe as Giles' action did? The fact that there isn't any evidence that he has changed. In S5 of Angel, he is still delusional. See who he claims were the important parties in defeating the First. He's only half right. The fact that he will lie to claim deeds does not prove to me that he is any way a halfway decent person.
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