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Post by JusticeDemon on Jun 14, 2004 11:43:59 GMT -5
Sorry to close the other threads, but I wanted to organize this a bit more. Please read through the "Discussion Format" thread before posting to this thread. I'd like our comments to be a bit more "complex" than what we might normally post on the forum, but not as a requirement. People can write their thesis on Buffy, so I think we can handle a paragraph or so.
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Post by JusticeDemon on Jun 14, 2004 11:55:17 GMT -5
This is an example of a more "serious" post.
One of the things I noticed most about these episodes was the "Reluctant Slayer" issue. After seeing seasons 6 and 7, this seemed a bit more important than I would have initially thought.
Giles confronts Buffy with her destiny, but she doesn't want anything to do with it. She just wants to be a normal girl with a normal life. This will become one of the show's strongest recurring themes; the eventual convergance of Buffy's two sides, Slayer and Woman.
The "Reluctant Slayer" trait is how we first understand what a Slayer is supposed to be. Initially, Buffy rejects her duty as a Slayer when she realizes there's danger in Sunnydale. Thankfully, this rejection does not hold and Buffy accepts her Slayer responsibilities.
I think it's very important that we were shown this in the first episode because it helps explain one of the most important internal conflicts Buffy herself will have over the next seven years. Time and time again she will have to face the fact that she's different than normal girls... with nothing she can do about it. She is the Chosen One (at least for now).
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Post by JusticeDemon on Jun 14, 2004 12:05:22 GMT -5
This would be a more casual post. EITHER post type is perfectly acceptable.
While watching these episodes, I could not get over how young the cast is when we first meet them. Skinny Xander and Angel are sorely missed toward the end of Buffy and Angel. I think each actor stepped right into their roles without much "warm up" time, which really makes the characters of Buffy, Willow, Giles, and Xander believeable from the get-go.
The characters of Angel and Darla are another story. It's almost painful to watch these two. If there is one thing I wish could have been done differently, it would be to have discussed their characters fictional history more with the actors ahead of time. I realize this would be difficult, especially considering most of it hadn't been written yet... but still... Darla seems incredibly weak and cowardly. Angel (while hot) isn't nearly as interesting has he will eventually become.
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Post by AnyaEmmerson on Jun 14, 2004 19:34:17 GMT -5
from the very first second of welcome to the hell mouth, i knew this was going to be one hell of a ride. the plot established itself within the first few scenes, which is very rare for a show of this nature.
the way we are introduced to the wide array of characters is great, for example, in xanders first scene we see him get his first glimpse of buffy, thus making him collide with the railing. before he had even met the slayer she had an impact on him. i dont think any of us had any idea of the degree of character growth we would see with this show.
the way they set up the "typical high school girl" thing with buffy was great, with the perfect hair and the perky breasts, who would have thought that she would turn out to be savour of the world. i think buffy summed it up nicely " this is sunnydale, how bad an evil can there be here?" spoken with such naivety and such innocents.
when Buffy first meets Cordelia, i think it reminds her of her L A days, the life she left behind in hemery.Cheer leader, head of the prom committee etc but all that changes when she sees how cordelia treats Willow. straight away we see Buffys soft side, yet there is always the feeling that all buffy wants is to be excepted. weather it be with the cool kids or the, not so cool kids. here is a girl, who, not only has to deal with school life, aswell as an overbearing booklearning mother, and an absant father but she allso has the weight of the world on her shoulders.
i love the scene when buffy first meets giles, it was so well put together, giles presumes that buffy eats sleeps and breaths slayage, when in fact, she does all she can to forget that life. but, when the need arises, she too rises up to the challenge. i dont think it became clear until mid season 4 how much buffy relied on giles, her replacement father. but everything from season 1 to season 7 all leads back to welcome to the hell mouth, the first time she met, who would later become her family.
the story pans out great, we learn all the information we need about the master, whilst still being left in the dark about much of his past. And the fact that we know from episode 1 that Angel has some sort of link to the master is great. "they really dont like me"
We see in welcome to the hellmouth something we can all relate to, weather it be doing something stupid in front of the coolest kid in school,"and then she ran at me, screaming, with a steak. im gonna kill you, im gonna kill you" or facing certain death at the hands of a vampire?? ok, so maybe not, but the point stands, this episode, and all those which would follow are held with such high regurd because there is allways somthing in it that we have either gone through, or know somone that has.
a fantastic start to an incredible season, extreemly well written, with such a freshness and such optimism. the likes of which have never been seen before.
the casting was awsome, all fresh faced young actors with such enthusiasm and such an intense presence on screen.
in the very last scene, we see that buffy has finally come to terms with the fact that she is "the slayer" and i think the reason she did that was not because its her destiny, not because its in her blood, but because she knows that from that day on, she wont be fighting the good fight alone. she has finally found the exceptance she has longed for...
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Post by BuffyLover on Jun 15, 2004 13:16:45 GMT -5
I posted in the other thread, but I decided to post again since this is now the official thread.
I don't know how many of you here saw the episode when it originally aired, but I did and I remember that there was a small commercial immediately before the episode that described slayer lore. It talked about Lucy Hanover and once I saw this I was instantly hooked. I knew this was going to be great.
It's interesting to see that the episode is not based on what happened in the movie, but joss's original script (for example in his script the gym burned down).
Giles seems very young and inexperienced. He seems to have a great devotion to the council and tends to remind me of how the other watchers are portrayed in future episodes.
The characters are set very nicely, especially Darla and the Master who remain somewhat mysterious. All the key character development are set up initially in this episode.
This episode and The Harvest also give us a large amount of mythology that not only helps the story, but gives it an epic feel.
The special effects, while not spectacular are given special attention and seem to be done as best as possible with the time and money given. Darla's vampire morph is actually very good and turns out better then some morphs in later seasons.
Darla's character seems to be weak and she seems to convey that she has not been around as long as we are later told.
At the end of this episode, Buffy is clearly not wearing her cross as ALL. Yet at the beginning of the Harvest it magically appears in the perfect spot.
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Post by abcfan on Jun 15, 2004 13:56:23 GMT -5
The episodes Welcome to the Hellmouth and The Harvest are absolute noir in the Buffyverse. They set the whole tone of the series and you almost get a feeling of how things are being played out. The story behind them I feel is very strong and is a brilliant way to carve a niche in our hearts.
The acting is superb by all of the main cast and some of the support cast. The extras are laughable at and give you the impression that people in Sunnydale stayed in the Califronian heat for far too long.
The Master is established as the big bad and is brilliant in this episode which only scratches the surface of his true destructive self. Luke is also pretty scary at first although his demise is very poor and not fitting for a vampire who came very close to killing our new found favourite heroine.
The sets and props are brilliant and i imediately fell in love with the libraray. it is much better than the one shown in the original un aired pilot.
The special affects are good for it's generation however poor in contrast to later season special effects.
Overall this is a superb episode and score very highly.
9/10
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fibreglass
Potential Slayer
If you go down to the woods today your sure of a big suprise!
Posts: 334
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Post by fibreglass on Jun 18, 2004 12:52:55 GMT -5
The episodes Welcome to the Hellmouth and The Harvest are absolute noir in the Buffyverse. They set the whole tone of the series and you almost get a feeling of how things are being played out. The story behind them I feel is very strong and is a brilliant way to carve a niche in our hearts. I totally disagree with this if you look at the later episodes of Season One. No scene has been set in this episode; it is only a way of establishing the character more of an epilogue really. Fair enough you are introduced to The Master, Darla and Angel but you don't really know at first whether they will have any real impact on a future story. I think we are forgetting that Buffy was once a normal girl, although she was young when she became the slayer she was also a Cordelia type character (very shallow). I think it is Buffy friends who have had the hardest time dealing with the 'Reluctant slayer'. All you have to do is to watch 'Dead Mans Party' from season 3. Buffy: "I'm trying." Willow: "Wow, and it looks so much like giving up!" |
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Post by AnyaEmmerson on Jun 18, 2004 12:57:05 GMT -5
I think it is Buffy friends who have had the hardest time dealing with the 'Reluctant slayer'. i dont think thats 100% true, yeah they find it hard, but at the end of the day Buffy is the one with the weight of the world on her shoulders, who can blaime her for being reluctant to take the job on. but, at the end of the day, she does it, because its who she is and she knows it. |
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Post by Lior Knight on Jun 22, 2004 11:17:38 GMT -5
Every time I watch these episodes reminds me the first time…in first look the shows seems to be just as any other action-horror show about a Xena-like girl. The Israeli promos kept promoting this show as a crossbreeding between “Clueless” and “A Nightmare on Elm Street”. But after watching the two-hour premier I was simply hooked to this show.
And even now, that I’ve watched the entire show for at least 5-6 times, I’m still feel almost like the first time.
The unique characters, the humor, the action. These would always be two of some of best episodes.
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Post by JBHpet on Jun 23, 2004 4:10:25 GMT -5
I had just watched this episode today right after Chosen, and it is interesting to compare how the characters have changed. Little things I noticed immediately is how Xander is a little more serious and less funny (and skateboards!); Willow isn't as quirky, just more nerdy; Angel is sarcastic and patronizing, instead of mysterious and strong (why exactly could he not help stop the harvest?) Darla seemed more inexperienced, and didn't really seem to have the history that she does; finally, there is Giles, who reminds me of Wesley when he tried to control Buffy later in season 3.
However, I did feel that Cordelia and Buffy had their characters pretty well established. One could almost see Buffy ready to give in to her Slayer destiny, but was still relunctant to do so. Cordelia was bitchy, plain and simple...but it is nice to see her character travel so far.
It is odd to see these characters so new and fresh, not knowing what they are going to later get into...such as: love, hate, withcraft, demons, hell gods, new slayers, visions, miracle births, sacrifice, betrayal, vengence, resurrection, heaven, hell, and death (lots of death...). It is like the first step of a long, and difficult journey.
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Post by Willfan on Jun 28, 2004 1:04:00 GMT -5
There's not much to add theme-wise, but I did notice how Buffy tells Xander how to kill a vamp, and says "that'll get it done"...anyone think it might have something to do with the title of the future episode? (I haven't watched it recently, so I'm not sure how it could connect)
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Post by BtVSFigs Admin on Jun 28, 2004 2:03:13 GMT -5
There's not much to add theme-wise, but I did notice how Buffy tells Xander how to kill a vamp, and says "that'll get it done"...anyone think it might have something to do with the title of the future episode? (I haven't watched it recently, so I'm not sure how it could connect) I think that would be pushing it to say that. Little lines like that wouldn't have that much impact. I mean I'm sure you could find just about all the titles said in some episode at some point, it doesn't neccesarily mean there's a connection. |
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Post by Reggie Kat on Jul 2, 2004 22:54:38 GMT -5
I guess that all I can say after watching the episodes twice in the last week (once with the commentary, once without) is that I'm still shocked at how young everyone looks--SMG has a much rounder face, Alyson Hannigan has no red in her hair whatsoever, and Giles has a much thinner, and more youthful (yet still highly 'reserved') look...Joyce's hair is still scary in "Welcome to the Hellmouth" and "The Harvest", no matter how many times I hope it will change whenever I watch it. LOL.
The only thing that I had trouble with was Jesse's death...It seemed as though I should have felt sadder than I did for him, but having just met him the same "day" he was killed left me with a sort of "ho-hum" feeling. Had they let Jesse blossom more as a character, I feel that I would have had more emotion for his demise than I did--he just seemed to be another anonymous face in the school that gets killed every other week, not a friend of Willow and Xander since childhood.
I was also mildly disappointed with the trick Buffy pulled on Luke in the Bronze with the "sunlight", and his screaming and covering his face. Although this was a classic ploy performed by Buffy, it has been seen before in countless other places, most notably in Walt Disney's movie, "Hocus Pocus"...it wasn't too effective there, either. However, the sarcastic charm in which SMG executes the scene is phenominal, and immediately hooked me on the show for good.
These were the first two episodes I remember seeing from Buffy, and they will always be the ones that hold the most magic for me.
RK
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Post by Dawn on Jul 10, 2004 10:22:00 GMT -5
These two episodes are great and I could not think of a better way for the best show ever to star off.
I love every second of these episode and the way she meet's the gang:-
Willow: How could Cordelia be so mean.
Giles: This bit alway's makes be laugh when Giles pops up from behind the counter and Buffy says "Oh anybodys here".
Xander: This bit is also funny with the line "Hey you dropped you're... Stake"
Cordelia: This is no tthe most exciting of Buffy meeting her friends but it is still good.
Angel: I love this one also, how she say's she really doesn't like Angel but little does she know what's to come over the next 7 years.
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Post by BillyBudd on Jan 10, 2005 2:51:14 GMT -5
I wouldn't call these two episodes perfect, but they were damn close. They featured a great introduction to the characters, smart dialogue, humor, and lots of fun. I liked the way they made a smooth transition from the movie to the TV series. As others have noted, there were definitely weaknesses (ie the characterization of Darla is totally different than later in the series, Angel's acting, etc.), but I don't feel that they detracted from the experience much, if at all. Excellent. Loved It  |
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