|
|
Post by JusticeDemon on Mar 9, 2004 16:09:02 GMT -5
We had the debate a while ago that a pentagram (upside down star in a circle) is usually seen as an 'evil' symbol, but that a pentacle (rightside up star in a circle) has traditionally been a symbol of good.
Well it looks like someone was listening!
If you notice, on Transformation Willow's base, there is a pentacle (good). If you line up Dark Witch Willow's base the same way, the base has a pentagram on it (bad). I love that accuracy and attention to detail. Obviously, you can turn the base any way you want. If you put them on the way it was intended, though, there's a whole new level of cool.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chaos on Mar 9, 2004 18:47:28 GMT -5
HA HA! I told you people they were 2 different symbols! WOW! that really cool. God Diamond Makes detailed figures!
|
|
|
|
Post by BoredNow on Mar 9, 2004 18:50:08 GMT -5
I don't get how you can tell which one is the top and which is the bottom ... It's in a circle ... (I know, I know, I'm a dumbass ... but I don't get it!) haha
|
|
|
|
Post by BuffyLover on Mar 9, 2004 19:04:10 GMT -5
That's really interesting... I am glad to see they are paying close attention.
|
|
|
|
Post by Raven on Mar 9, 2004 19:07:55 GMT -5
A pentacle is the five pointed star surrounded by a circle.
A pentagram is just the five pointed star.
The differation has nothing to do with the position of the star.
The top point of the star stands for Spirit. Therefore if you have the top point pointing upwards it symbolizes the Spirit over matter.
An inverted pentagram means the Spirit is subservient to matter, man subservient to his carnal desires. Hence why it is used in Satanism.
It has been a respectable symbol for a long time and is still used by witches and pagans. An upside-down A doesn’t mean the opposite of A, it’s just upside down. The symbol is what you make of it, and what meaning you personally apply to it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chaos on Mar 9, 2004 19:58:42 GMT -5
I do agree somewhat with raven. if your a wicca and you sit inside your pentacle a certain way your not doing a satanic ritual. And I was misinformed by my Wicca friends, look at the definitions for each, they're almost exactly the same!
|
|
|
|
Post by CMK1887 on Mar 9, 2004 20:46:36 GMT -5
I don't get how you can tell which one is the top and which is the bottom ... It's in a circle ... (I know, I know, I'm a dumbass ... but I don't get it!) haha Notice where the peg is...if you stand the Willows on their stands correctly, like JD said, than the symbol will be facing the way it needs to. The star will be pointing downwards for Dark Witch Willow, and the star will point upwards for Transformation Willow. -CMK |
|
|
|
Post by werewolf on Mar 10, 2004 3:21:12 GMT -5
Raven and Chaos: no offense, but JD is right, and this is so awesome for these figures. Truth is, Websters can define them however, as a jewish star like they did with one, or just a star, but BOTH a pentacle and pentagram are the 5 lines making a star surrounded by a circle. And no, I did not have to look this up online.
|
|
|
|
Post by Raven on Mar 10, 2004 10:18:48 GMT -5
Believe what you may Werewolf. I did not have to look this up online either as I am a Wiccan and fully aware what the difference is and what is taught in my tradition and others. If you are taught differently in your tradition, I apologize. But I am sharing what is true and correct in my beliefs and therefore it is not incorrect to me.
And for someone to imply I worship evil or Satan because I may employ an inverted pentacle is an affront to myself and many other Wiccans.
|
|
|
|
Post by magickgrrl on Mar 10, 2004 11:25:13 GMT -5
Raven is right about how the two words are defined in the Wiccan religion. Wicca also uses an inverted star in the 2nd degree. It indeed signifies matter over spirit, but there one of the meanings is that at this level, Wiccans are confronting their inner demons and (hopefully) overcoming them. It's all about inner spiritual development at that point. Satanists use the inverted star in exactly the same manner that Raven mentions. I can't really speak with authority there, as I am not Satanist and have not studied their tenants.
But this is all just semantics and detours from the point that attention to detail ROCKS.
magickgrrl
|
|
|
|
Post by Raven on Mar 10, 2004 11:29:39 GMT -5
Yes I wanted to added that I meant no disrespect to JD and his sharing this info, as I understand that DST was only giving attention to a small detail the fans would notice.
|
|
|
|
Post by JusticeDemon on Mar 10, 2004 11:45:40 GMT -5
I certainly didn't want to offend anyone. For what it's worth, I did not know that Wiccans employed an inverse star in their practices.
What I was trying to point out in this thread was that DST put enough detail into these symbols to make them accurate. True, both symbols are used in the Wicca tradition. But the pentagram or inverted star is also used by less-than-admirable groups (including the ever-evil "cult" and "satanists"). I think this gives an extra meaning to the otherwise rather boring bases, especially if you know anything about the history and meaning of those symbols. THAT'S what I wanted to point out.
|
|
|
|
Post by Raven on Mar 10, 2004 11:52:03 GMT -5
I completely understand JD and in no means meant to imply that you were being offensive. Sometimes in trying to impart knowledge to people who aren't familiar with Wicca, I may become a little shall we say boisterous in my opinions.
Again my apologies, as I know you were just sharing this detail.
|
|
|
|
Post by JusticeDemon on Mar 10, 2004 12:46:58 GMT -5
Wow. A civilized discussion! Everyone mark your calendars!
|
|
|
|
Post by DanMan on Mar 11, 2004 0:47:40 GMT -5
Marked and noted. I guess having new figures finally coming out brings out the best in all of us.  |
|
|
|
Post by SBMSunnydale on Mar 11, 2004 2:31:28 GMT -5
I've never actually posted before, but I've been watching (lurking is such an ugly word) and I feel oddly compelled to add my two cents.
I don't want to go over the facts again other than to comment that Raven is indeed accurate. However, having looked into both Satanism and Wicca myself, I can fully understand why they chose to make the symbol simply inverted rather than 100% accurate. The inverted pentagram is indeed used in satanism - but mainly because it's much easier to draw or make than the full version of the emblem - the Sigil of Baphomet. And DST can't use that on the Willow bases because the Baphomet was used as a base design for the Seal of Danthazar, and it will probably be used for a later figure base.
So, simple inverted pentagram it is.
|
|
|
|
Post by Raven on Mar 11, 2004 12:09:25 GMT -5
Thanks guys |
|
|
|
Post by DanMan on Mar 12, 2004 0:46:08 GMT -5
I've never actually posted before, but I've been watching (lurking is such an ugly word) and I feel oddly compelled to add my two cents. I don't want to go over the facts again other than to comment that Raven is indeed accurate. However, having looked into both Satanism and Wicca myself, I can fully understand why they chose to make the symbol simply inverted rather than 100% accurate. The inverted pentagram is indeed used in satanism - but mainly because it's much easier to draw or make than the full version of the emblem - the Sigil of Baphomet. And DST can't use that on the Willow bases because the Baphomet was used as a base design for the Seal of Danthazar, and it will probably be used for a later figure base. So, simple inverted pentagram it is. Well explained, thanks for posting! Personally, I think it's cool that they did the pop culture version of good/bad pentagrams. The show has never tried to be 100% accurate to Wiccan customs, so I see no need for the figures to be. |
|
|
|
Post by JusticeDemon on Mar 12, 2004 2:31:42 GMT -5
After all... I think we all remember the "Hell hath no fury like a Wiccan scorned" fiasco.
|
|
|
|
Post by Raven on Mar 12, 2004 15:00:42 GMT -5
Frankly I just like to see "Raven is right" in print as much as possible  hee |
|
